Gentiles in Messiah have been transformed by Yeshua’s redeeming work and, as we shall see, are more than just mere Noachides or first-century God-fearers. Those of us from the nations should be proud of who God created us to be. We have an important opportunity to be a light for HaShem and his kingdom that only we can be. Together with our Jewish brothers and sisters in Messiah, we must work towards establishing Messiah’s kingdom and the rule of Torah, while at the same time accepting our own unique roles. At the same time, some may wonder whether it matters if a person is called a Jew or a Gentile.
Aren’t we all one new man in Messiah? Doesn’t the Torah say that there shall be one law for both the stranger and the native-born alike? In the next chapter, we will consider the context of those passages that seem to apply the same standard and obligation of Torah law to both Jews and Gentile believers.
-Toby Janicki
from his soon to be released book:
God-Fearers: Gentiles and the God of Israel
Chapter 1, pp 24-25
This book just became available from First Fruits of Zion (FFOZ) but I managed to get my hands on an advance copy last week at the FFOZ Shavuot conference, so I was able to read it several days ago. The first thing I thought of when I finished chapter one was the 1992 Newsboys pop song I’m Not Ashamed (boy, it was good to hear that song again). Of course the song focuses on Christians who are hesitant to share their faith in a world dominated by secular values, but I applied it to how a lot of non-Jews in the Messianic movement seem “ashamed” or “embarrassed” just to be Gentiles in a Jewish religious context. I’ve met more than a few non-Jews in the movement who somehow feel that being a Gentile just isn’t good enough. They seem to think that being Jewish is where the “action” is.
I’ve already written about the absolutely fabulous role that Gentiles play in God’s plan in the redemption of national Israel and the return of the Messiah (see Redeeming the Heart of Israel, Part 1 and Part 2). That means I certainly believe we have no reason whatsoever to be ashamed, embarrassed, or put off about not being Jewish and still worship and honor God in Messianic Judaism. Nevertheless, these emotions are ubiquitous among Gentiles in the various flavors of Messianic Judaism. I suspect this is the motivation, conscious or otherwise, for some Gentiles to be attracted to either the One Law or Two-House theologies (although I know this isn’t true of everyone in those two traditions), each of which require some “equalization” of Jews and Gentiles within Messianic Judaism though a process of homogenization of Jewish and Gentile distinction.
About the only other “cure” (besides just getting past this insecurity and being delighted in who God made you to be) for this condition among some (but far from all) Messianic Gentiles, is to leave the Messianic movement entirely, abandoning faith in the Jewish Messiah King and converting to some other form (usually Orthodox) of Judaism. This is pretty much “throwing out the baby with the bath water” and our movement has been torpedoed (yes, I said “our” since even though I’m a Christian, I can still embrace Jesus as the Jewish Messiah within his correct context) on multiple occasions by people who are struggling with personal faith and identity issues.
I must admit, I can hardly be critical of these folks since more than once I’ve been severely tempted to “throw in the towel” myself, not only in terms of the Messianic perspective, but as far as any faith tradition at all. This life can be miserably hard and lonely and it would be easier to follow the path of least resistance and to either join and blend into a traditional church or just forsake Jesus altogether and enter into the masses of the secular herd.
But I just can’t make myself do it. I can’t make myself walk away. Some incredible drive keeps pulling me back, like an enormous elastic band holding me to the center of God so that I can only run so far away from Him before being snapped back.
The marketing material for Toby’s book wasn’t available from FFOZ when I originally wrote this “meditation,” so my full review won’t appear for the next day or so. I will tell you though, that the direction this book takes dovetails quite nicely with FFOZ’s current and future vision and frankly, it works very well with my vision, too.
Like many Christians who have been involved in the Messianic movement for a while, I’ve gone through the “developmental phase” of almost hating being a Gentile and longing to discover some hidden “crypto-Jewishness” in my genealogy. I never found any, which is fortunate, because if I did, it would have robbed me of the opportunity to discover that God loves Gentile Christians, too and that He has a very specific and incredibly vital role in His plan just for us.
But the most important gift I received over the past week that I want to share with you, is that we don’t have to be ashamed or embarrassed because we’re not Jewish. We don’t have to be jealous of envious of Jews and their unique covenant relationship with God. We have something that is better even than sons and daughters. We have the right to be called God’s sons and daughters. We have the right to be the precious crown jewels among the nations.
I’m not ashamed. You don’t have to be either.
Addendum: I’ve been reminded recently that there are many congregations of non-Jews in Hebrew Roots who are not looking to create their own “Judaism.” Instead, they seek to express their worship and devotion to God in a manner that acknowledges the Jewishness of Jesus. If that’s you and you are perfectly fine being a Gentile Christian in a Messianic Jewish or Hebrew Roots congregation, then this blog post may not be speaking to you. That’s OK, too.
Morning Meditations 
“I am not ashamed” whoooo hooooo! Halleluuuuujah!
I think I like where this is heading….in my fellowship we have some Levites….we have some gentiles….we do not think less of ourselves or one another. We don’t all have the same calling, but we all drink from the same fountain of life.
When we factor down…it all comes down to love and doing the will of the Father. Happy Shabbos Brother James!
Why not be ashamed? There is so much to be ashamed for…this shame should lead to humility & education from Kosher sources.
@Steven: I know you’ve been reading my recent blog posts so, tying everything together, it’s also about being delighted to be who God created us to be, whether Jew or Gentile, and being part of God’s unique plan for our lives.
@Tikvah: I didn’t say we shouldn’t be ashamed of our sins and repent. I meant that we who are not Jewish shouldn’t be ashamed just because it was God’s desire that we should be born Gentile. We shouldn’t be so envious of our Jewish brothers and sisters that we reject the person God made us to be and seek to claim the identity markers that specifically are for the Jewish people or, Heaven forbid, abandon Yeshua and convert to a more traditional form of Judaism.
That’s what I mean when I say we shouldn’t be ashamed.
“it’s also about being delighted to be who God created us to be, whether Jew or Gentile, and being part of God’s unique plan for our lives.”
Yeah, I get that….it’s awesome! After all, God so loved the world he wants to give us eternal life together with him. He made us unique and not boring.
I’m delighted! I’m delighted!
As a fellow non-Jew married to a Jews, I have been asked from time to time if I was going to convert. I’ve never felt that compulsion as I’ve always been comfortable in my role as a God-fearer from the nations. I was created to be just who I am, and to support my Messianic Jewish husband!
It was great to meet you at the conference. Soldier on!
Greetings, Anne. It was good to meet you, too. Thank you for your kind comments.
Just one comment, though. As Gentile disciples of the Jewish Messiah, we aren’t really considered “God-fearers” as was the Roman Centurion Cornelius (Acts 10) before his encounter with Peter. As a God-fearer, Cornelius attached himself to the God of Israel and did many praiseworthy acts in His Name, but he did not have a covenant relationship with the Almighty. When he became a disciple of the Jewish Messiah and received the Spirit, Cornelius transitioned from a God-fearer to a member of the Messianic covenant. As disciples of the Master, we too are more than God-fearers. Like Cornelius, we are not sons and daughters of the Most High.
Peace.
“Like Cornelius, we are not sons and daughters of the Most High.”
What?
Typo, Steven. Like Cornelius, we are now sons and daughter of the Most High. Sorry about that.
I get it…thanks James!
Your blogs are always so stimulating!
I’ve been struggling with the concept of Jewish Souls, and what that means.
What does it mean to be “grafted in” as Christians believe in, and does the wild branch take on the look of the cultivated olive tree? (rhetorical questions really)
Oh, thanks for clarifying. 🙂
Hi Tikvah,
The way I understand it (and I’m no expert) is if you take a branch from a wild olive tree (let’s say for the sake of example that wild olive tree branches give blue flowers) and graft it in to a cultivated olive tree, the wild branch, though nourished and kept living by the sap of the cultivated tree, never becomes “cultivated.” If the wild branch blooms, it still gives blue flowers. If the cultivated tree blooms, it gives a different color flowers (let’s say pink). I’m making all the stuff about flowers and colors up but to establish my point that we can be “grafted in” and nourished by the root, but that doesn’t actually turn us into the root.
It’s sort of like someone being adopted into a family. They are treated just like the other sons and daughters, loved and cared for, nurtured and allowed to mature, but the “genetics” of where the adopted child came from will never change and they will never become the same as the family on a “DNA” level. The adopted child on almost every level that matters, is the same as any other kid in the family, but they’ll still be “grafted in.”
That’s probably an imperfect analogy, but it gives us an idea of how we can be co-heirs with Israel but still doesn’t create us to all have a single, uniform, homogenous identity. It’s OK for Jewish disciples to still be Jewish and Gentile disciples to still be Gentile. I wish you could have been at the Shavuot conference last week. You would have seen these words put into action and how all of the different people there remained distinct but still worshiped God with a single heart.
Which brings up the question: How did Samuel become the High Priest?
Since that is at least somewhat addressed in 1 Samuel 1 and 2, I assume you already know the answer to the question you’re asking, Steven.
Well, as Samuel was not a Son of Aaron…. was there a type of supersessionism that took place when Eli and his sons were killed and replaced outside of the line of Aaron? (Which as you know was against the law) If Samuel was “adopted” or “grafted in” to Eli’s family…..it relates to the question you raised….
“It’s OK for Jewish disciples to still be Jewish and Gentile disciples to still be Gentile. ”
To me, that’s like saying….”it’s OK for Eli’s sons to still be High Priest. It’s like saying Samuel is allowed to remain outside of the line of Aaron” and yet do the work of the High Priest.
I think it goes to the heart of the matter in my own opinion.
God has the power to raise up sons to Aaron outside of the DNA of Aaron while killing the disobedient ACTUAL sons of Aaron. God has the power to raise up sons to Abraham from the stones in the pavement, meaning everything that is passed down through genetics can be created by God, he does not need the unrepentant and disobedient but can cast them aside and replace them.
God does not break his covenant promises to Abraham, but he has to power to keep those promises without the “flesh” of every Israelite.
John the Baptist called the Son’s of Abraham to repentance the same way God called Eli and his son’s to repentance. When they refused….he replaced them.
“Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say among yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say unto you, that God is able from these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. And now also the ax is laid unto the root of the trees. Every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire.”
I know you hate all things replacement, but the fact remains…..it’s plainly taught in the bible, both old and new testament’s that the disobedient will be replaced with the obedient “I was found by those who sought me not” if Jew or Gentile.
If the High Priest could loose his position and his Son’s their inheritance to one who is not of the line of Aaron, a clear replacement……people should take care how they handle the holy things of God.
As far as I can tell from the text, the situation involving Samuel was unique and God point blank made the determination. That doesn’t mean that he threw out his covenant with Aaron and his line forever and left the Priesthood up for grabs to every and all comers. Otherwise, I might as well apply for the job when the Third Temple is built. I have to believe that in subsequent generations, the sons of Aaron retained their right to the priesthood and it was not perpetually opened up to all the tribes.
I don’t think we can take one isolated and unique event and apply it to God’s entire relationship with the line of Aaron, the Levites, and the inheritors of the Children of Israel, but then, I’m pretty conservative about this sort of thing. Allowing such a practice would make it way too easy for just about anyone to “rewrite” the Bible and to say, among other things, that God capriciously changes the rules, just for giggles. It would make God too unpredictable and none of us would have any security that when God made a promise, it would last for any length of time.
It would mean that at one point, Israel felt secure that God would love them, even when they were faithless, and He would make it possible for them to ultimately return to Him at the right time. If God blew that promise away at any point, then how could we Christians know that, given the right set of circumstances, all of the promises of Jesus Christ might not go away as well?
Either God’s promises are dependable and enduring, or we’ve all got a big problem.
Well, wasn’t it Sons of Samuel through whom the High Priesthood descended, or did it revert back to blood line of Aaron at one point? I think the story shows that God raised up a son of promise to himself….not of the line of Aaron.
Not sure, just questioning…..for if the line of the high priest descended through Samuel and his Sons who were not of the line of Aaron….
I think the point is that God’s promises ARE dependable and enduring, but he does not need blood descendants to keep them. That’s why it is of Faith and not Race.
Something to think about….
Questions like this exceed my abilities in the area of scholarship, at least without the aid of Google. I did discover that the Genealologies of the High Priests are listed in 1 Chronicles 6:1-15, 50-53 and Ezra 7:1-5. As far as I can tell, this is a list of the High Priests from Samuel until the priesthood was returned to the line of Eleazar (Aaron’s son, who succeeded him upon Aaron’s death):
Eli
Samuel
Ichabod (1 Samuel 4:19-22)
Ahitub (?) (1 Samuel 14:3; 22:9)
Ahimelech (1 Samuel 21:1-6; 22:9-18)
Abiathar (1 Samuel 22:20-23; 23:6, 9; 30:7)
The House of Eli fell from high priesthood, fulfilling the words found in 1 Samuel 2:30-36 and 1 Kings 2:27, 35.
At some point before the Temple of Solomon is constructed, the priesthood is returned to the line of Eleazar.
Of course, my conclusions could be blown away with a sneeze. Any Bible scholars out there able to answer this question more definitively, please join in.
However, as of now, it looks like the Bible record supports the idea that the priesthood was only temporarily removed from the house of Aaron and subsequently restored.
One thing to consider, and I’ve said this in comments on different blog posts today, is that all this might not be just a matter of bloodline but of the promises God made to specific peoples and families. If God made a promise to Phinehas that the priesthood would always belong to his descendants (Aaron’s descendants), even though it involves a covenant with a specific family, why wouldn’t God keep his word? After all, he promised that the Kingship over Israel would always belong to the sons of David and we know for a fact that Messiah is a son of David. We don’t call that racism or “flesh” just because Jesus must be a Jew and specifically of the house of Judah, do we?
But, what you say about Messiah seems to make a point….because sons linage were son to son, not son to daughter to son and Messiah had no human father. I mean even in the lines you show, there are no daughters. So how is Messiah a son of David?
I thought this scripture was interesting and revealing:
1 Samuel 2: 27 A man of God came to ‘Eli and told him, “Here is what Adonai says: ‘Didn’t I reveal myself to your ancestor’s clan when they were in Egypt, serving as slaves in Pharaoh’s household? 28 Didn’t I choose him out of all the tribes of Isra’el to be my cohen, go up to my altar, burn incense and wear a ritual vest in my presence? Didn’t I assign to your ancestor’s clan all the offerings of the people of Isra’el made by fire? 29 So why are you showing such disrespect for my sacrifices and offerings, which I ordered to be made at my dwelling? Why do you show more honor to your sons than to me, making yourselves fat with the choicest parts of all the offerings of Isra’el my people?’
30 “Therefore Adonai the God of Isra’el says, ‘I did indeed say that your family and your father’s family would walk in my presence forever.’
BUT NOW ADONAI SAYS, ‘Forget it! I respect those who respect me, but those who despise me will meet with contempt.
31 The day is coming when I will break your strength and the strength of your father’s family, so that no one in your family will live to old age. 32 At a time when Isra’el is prospering, you will see a rival in my Dwelling; and never will anyone in your family live to old age. 33 Still, I won’t cut off every one of your men from my altar; because that would make your eyes grow dim, and you would waste away. Nevertheless, all your descendants will die young. 34 Your sign that this will occur will be what happens to your two sons Hofni and Pinchas — they will both die on the same day. 35 I will raise up for myself a faithful cohen who will do what I want and what I intend. I will make his family faithful, and he will serve in the presence of my anointed one forever. 36 Everyone left in your family will come, prostrate himself before him for a silver coin or a loaf of bread, and say, “Please, won’t you give me some work as a cohen, so I can have a scrap of bread to eat?”’”
I only point it out because it gives a precedent of replacement theology. Although the entire Levitical system was not replaced (at that time) it’s clear that one who respects God has replaced one who had a promise but respected his sons more than he respected God.
Steven, in my previous observation, it seems as it God temporarily took the priesthood away from the Aaronic line but later restored it. God also said that the Children of Israel would have permanent possession of the land of Israel, but He has periodically exiled the Jews from that land in response to His promises. Keep in mind the “temporary” part and that God has also promised to restore the Jewish people to their land completely. This is all part of what I was talking about earlier in terms of Israel’s national redemption and return to Torah.
There are a few explanations for Jesus being the Son of David. First would be the idea that Miriam (Mary) was of the Davidic line. The second was that Joseph “adopted” Jesus which would cause Jesus to be the first born son of Joseph and inherit the Davidic line. Beyond that, I don’t know. I do know that Jesus was called “Son of David” (see Luke 18:38) by even people who knew him only by reputation. Son of David is usually an honorific title referring to the Messiah, so Jesus was recognized as both a descendant of David’s house and, at least by some Jews, as the prophesied Messiah.
If anyone else out there wants to flesh this out, please feel free.
Hi James, don’t get upset that I press on with this. What am I getting at?
First, I DO believe that Yeshua is the Son of David. I’m not questioning if but how.
Second, if your going to write about supersessionism these questions are going to come up. God has a way of altering events and even persons to accomplish his will. Even inside or within his promises, covenants, etc.
Take for instance the alteration of names? Or the putting to sleep the Adam to alter his body. Or the alterations that took place in Abraham’s DNA when he was put to sleep so the promises of seed could be fulfilled.
Or that all covenants and promises are in the person of the word.
Alterations can also be made in the “body of Israel”.
I think the sons of Eli though they had a sure thing and in a way they did but in a way they did not. Presumptuous of them to think they had God bound up by covenants and promises.
Does that make sense? Shalom
I apologize if I sound upset. It’s not intentional. I’m trying to keep up with comments that are happening on three of my blog posts as well as multi-task at work. I think my language gets a little terse sometimes.
Glad we agree about Jesus being the Son of David. How that works depends on which New Testament scholar you subscribe to. They don’t all agree as to the operative mechanism involved.
Excuse me…God altered Abraham’s DNA? This is news to me. What did his DNA have to do with anything?
You said:
So are you saying that God can reverse any of His covenant responsibilities at any time? That’s also news to me. Look at it this way.
In a marriage, the husband and wife are bound to each other by covenant. We all promise to “love and honor” each other “til death do us part.” However, in the church, the divorce rate is pretty much the same as it is in secular society, hovering around 50% as far as the last statistics I read. It’s because both parties are human. We’re frail. We make mistakes. We’re inconsistent.
However when only one party to a covenant is human and the other is God, we will expect only one party in that covenant will be frail, make mistakes, and be inconsistent: the human. God, once He makes a promise, will keep His promise.
God may not be “bound” to a covenant as we understand the term; that is, He may not be powerless to break it if He chooses, by His very nature, He *is* truth, so we know that if he elects to bind Himself to a promise that He will fulfill it and not break His Word.
This is why both Israel and we Christians can have faith that the promises God made to us will be kept by Him. The only question in any of these covenants is how faithful will the human beings be?
“So are you saying that God can reverse any of His covenant responsibilities at any time?”
No. What I am saying is that our understanding of his covenant responsibilities may be lacking. We point to a promise of a Covenant and say “see, he promised” thinking we know what that means and how it will play out.
Just like Samuel is not a son of Aaron, neither is Yeshua…but the one raised up by God “SUPERCEEDS” the other that was previously chosen and given promises as a Cohen. A type of replacement if you will as the first now has additional promises and the fulfillment of the first are in one from the tribe of Judah and not Levi. Although, he is not finished with Levi.
… your sons will all die young and “Everyone left in your family will come, prostrate himself before him for a silver coin or a loaf of bread, and say, “Please, won’t you give me some work as a Cohen, so I can have a scrap of bread to eat?”
The promises had a change or addition not present prior.
“in speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.”
Obviously, God can keep his promises by taking away one covenant and making another.
“Excuse me…God altered Abraham’s DNA? This is news to me. What did his DNA have to do with anything?”
What was happening to Abraham? The promises of the living seed were written in him by the blessing of covenant. Abraham’s body being dead could bring forth the “living seed”. God is not the God of the Dead, but the “God of the Living” and in “Abraham’s seed” were the promises placed.
The blessed DNA of Abraham….the Living Seed……only became possible when the DNA of Abraham was altered while he slept which is reproduced in the seed.
“I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and as the sand that is on the seashore. And your offspring shall possess the gate of his enemies, and in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have obeyed my voice.”
Mark 12:26 And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’?
Yeshua is the Resurrection and the Truth and it was written into the DNA of Abraham when God “Knew” him and his offspring. Resurrection comes only to those who believe.
“I and my Father are One”
I’m not even sure how to address the “DNA” theory. Granted, something mysterious and even highly mystical was happening in Genesis 15, but I don’t think that there’s only one way of looking at it. The fact that God miraculously made it possible for Abraham and Sarah to reproduce well into extreme old age doesn’t mean Abraham’s DNA was literally re-written and it doesn’t necessarily mean that how Abraham knew Jesus was through DNS manipulation. Some Jewish commentaries say that Abraham had a vision of the Messiah at the Akedah (Binding of Isaac).
I’ve already said that Samuel’s heirs held the high priesthood only temporarily and it reverted back to the heirs of Aaron so what you say above doesn’t seem to impact that conclusion. I agree, we probably don’t understand everything there is to know about how God is involved in His own covenant promises, but given any doubt, I’d just as soon err on the side of caution and believe that when God says something and that it is forever, He means it that way. When I have a very good reason to think otherwise, I’ll go down that path. We need to be careful about suggesting that God may not always mean what He says, just to fit a currently popular theology of the church or worse, accuse God of any sort of “bait and switch.”
Anyway, it’s been a long day and I’m going offline now. See you on the flip side.
Sleep well.
You too James! G’night
Steven there is lots of scripture indicating that he will keep his promise to Israel. He punishes but does not forsake his chosen. Revelation for example is one that mentions that 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel bearing the mark on their foreheads are going to be redeemed. GOD will fulfill his promise to Israel and there is no replacement, just being added unto. There are sinful and unrepentant ones in ALL nations, including the nation of Israel, and those are the ones that will not be a part, but Jews are not going to be replaced.
Hi Liz, what do you think about the Levite’s replacing the firstborn through redemption? Or David and his sons replacing Saul and his sons as Kings of Israel, or Samuel replacing Eli, or Yeshua replacing the Levitical high priest, or the Order of Melchizedek replacing the Levitical order, or Seth replaced Abel, the Church replaced Israel as the nation who brings forth the fruits of the Kingdom. You get my point….I could list many many times God uses replacement to fulfill his promises and covenants. 🙂
And, no one said Israel was replaced ‘as in they would not be saved’.
But, just because one is chosen, does not mean another will not be chosen “above” that one or to replace that one. Saul was chosen and anointed and replaced. That’s a picture repeated over and over through out the bible. Ishmael was firstborn but he was replaced with Issac. Esau had the right, but was replaced by Jacob.
I agree, he will keep his promise to Israel…..both the good and the bad. Do you know the promise for breaking the covenant?
Hi Liz, what do you think about the Levite’s replacing the firstborn through redemption? Or David and his sons replacing Saul and his sons as Kings of Israel, or Samuel replacing Eli, or Yeshua replacing the Levitical high priest, or the Order of Melchizedek replacing the Levitical order, or Seth replaced Abel, the Church replaced Israel as the nation who brings forth the fruits of the Kingdom. You get my point….I could list many many times God uses replacement to fulfill his promises and covenants.
Steven, you may be overextending these specific examples into a general principle in order to fulfill traditional Christian theology. I don’t recall, for example, God promising Saul that his line would always have the Kingship of Israel, but he made such a promise to David. Did the Melchizekekin order replace the Levitical order relative to the Third Temple or does the Melchizekekin order fulfill the priesthood requirement in God’s Heavenly Court? Not sure there’s an answer to that one.
I don’t think your examples are justification for supporting the permanent ascension of the Gentile church over Israel. As Liz said, there are plenty of examples of God’s promises to restore the ascendency of Israel over the nations in the last days.
James, Perhaps I’m overextending the examples but some may want to avoid looking at God’s examples of “replacement theology” as though it has no precedence in the TNK.
The bible clearly clearly teaches Israel as head of the nations but THE NATION as Yeshua’s bride and head of Israel. Jerusalem, a gentile city….adopted by God and given his name…redeemed of the nations….seat of the Throne of God…the Gentile Queen who marries the Jewish King Yeshua and together as one rule Israel and the Nations.
“Hallelujah!
For the Lord our God
the Almighty reigns.
Let us rejoice and exult
and give him the glory,
for the marriage of the Lamb has come,
and his Bride has made herself ready;
it was granted her to clothe herself
with fine linen, bright and pure”—
for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints.
I’m sure we could keep this up for days, Steven and I’m still working on how the events recorded at the book of Revelation will play out. At some point, possibly far after what we call “the Messianic Age,” God will finally dwell with His people won’t even have a temple. Only “the throne of God and of the Lamb” will be in the city. At that point, all of the “rules” will probably be off and Heaven and Earth will have passed away as we understand them (this is all highly speculative as all mystic visions are). Eden will be restored and humanity will recover to a state that it hasn’t enjoyed since the first days of the Garden.
In the meantime, I’ll still stand with Israel and the nation that gave birth to the Messiah.
Here is the problem you face: Jerusalem is Mystery, Babylon that will be destroyed and purged by fire. New Jerusalem is her replacement. In standing with Israel it’s important to know the difference.
But, you sound “spiritual” without understanding, at least to me in your declaration to stand with Israel.
Me, I’ll stand with Yeshua and the Church, those who believe in God and his Son whom he sent. Shalom
I’ll let this be my last post on this thread as we do not have meeting of our minds. 🙂
True and that’s fine (I’m sure we’ll pick this up again in another one of my blogs). 😉
You might want to stop short of comparing Jerusalem to Babylon, though. Just a thought.
By the waters of Babylon,
there we sat down and wept,
when we remembered Zion.
On the willows there
we hung up our lyres.
For there our captors
required of us songs,
and our tormentors, mirth, saying,
“Sing us one of the songs of Zion!”
How shall we sing the Lord’s song
in a foreign land?
If I forget you, O Jerusalem,
let my right hand forget its skill!
Let my tongue stick to the roof of my mouth,
if I do not remember you,
if I do not set Jerusalem
above my highest joy!
—Psalm 137:1-6 (ESV)
Well, one last comment 🙂
Ask any Torah scholar to read Rev 18 and to tell you what city is being referred to. Because they know the prophecies concerning Jerusalem and Israel they will immediately recognize the language.
Or, even better….take each phrase concerning Mystery, Babylon and put it into your search engine and it will lead you to the TNK….then ask yourself….what city or nation did the prophecy come from.
You will find out it’s Jerusalem. I do not compare Jerusalem to Babylon….I do not compare it spiritually to Sodom and Egypt. God does.
You will find out it’s Jerusalem. I do not compare Jerusalem to Babylon….I do not compare it spiritually to Sodom and Egypt. God does.
Situationally and temporarily. In the end, not so much.
Yes, you are right. Just like us…we have our past, our deadness, our sinfulness
But, in being born again and through the purification of water and fire
Our end, like Jerusalem’s (we are the New Jerusalem) is “a new creature “.
In the end the Holy City, Habitation of the Living God.